Legal practitioner, British subject, in Shanghai for 2 years and 8 months.
Q—Will you please tell us just what happened on this afternoon?
A—Between 3.15~ and 3.30, 1 left the Astor House to go to the Blackstone Apartments, proceeding by way of Nanking Road in a. ricsha, When crossing Chekiang Road I noticed a crowd of about 2,000 standing at the edge of the cement, looking up westwards mean a'continuous line of 2 and sometimes 3 along the pavement. The wheeled traffic was decidedly, thick and 1 never saw anyone in the rowd at all, 1 got as far as the Town Hall and then T heard shots fired. 1 heard a volley. I had seen one boy or! one man with a large packet of pamphlets, Ho was throwing them up in the air when I was about half way down to the Town, Hall. Some of the fell into the road and 15 to 20 Chi-neve ran out into the road, and ty riesha boy had to go to the left avoid them. At that time thes was a "bus on my right just front, half-right. When I heard the volley fired, 1 anticipated that the next shot would be ball fire Lat once ordered my riesha boy to take cover behind the "bus. He did ye and then I directed him further back into the side road on the left. of the Town Hall, Q—You were at the Town Hall when the firing took place?
'A—I was at the corner of th Town Hall and thtyrond, watch ing things.
'Q—What road?
A—L could not tell you. 1 tole my boy to pick up one of the pan phets and he went out to the mi: die of the rond to pick up one f me. Traffic had been held
the traffic, asfarasT could see, w When the trafic was proven goings abend, east and west, but it muddenly stopped. I was personally able to look up Nanking Rowd round the corner of the'fown Hall.
was looking towards Louza Pol-jog Station.
'Q—As far ay you could wee, what did you sec in front of the' gate?
A=L could not see the gate.
Q—Any reason for that?
A—Owing to the "bus being immediately at right angles between! mo and the station, I waited on the corner for about a quarter of an hour and I saw the wounded pass me. I sw one hoy sitting ricsha stripped to the waist with wound in his back. Whether! it came from the front or back I do not know, but the wound was perfectly clean and no blood issuing from it. I should not like way whether he had been hit from the front or the back, but my first] impression was that it was a back wound. He put his hand round. his back like this (demonstrated) and then looked at his hand.
Q—Did you see any wound in front
Vonly saw his hack. When I saw 'AT didn't ge the boy in front, him, he was atouple of yards away from me.
Q—Did you actually see this movement of reaching behind to the wound on his back, and then ooking at his hand?
'A—Yes, he smeared his open hand, like this (demonstrated). There was no blood. I then proceeded along up the narrow road round the Town Hall to get into Thibet Road in order to do which I had to make a turn to the right. Phere T saw patches of blood and actually had my riesha boy pull up. I noticed a Chinese was saying something or other calling to his friends to show them the blood. I proceeded on to Blackstone! Apartments and returned down passed Love Station and anw Nanking Road about 5.30.
trouble then.
'Q—-At what time did you arrive at this point at the corner of the! Town Hall where your ricsha was held up?
"At looked at-my watch at time the firing took place, and, it! wan 3.30 exactly.
'Q—Your watch is in.good working condition?
A—Absolutely correct.
Q—You arrived at the moment! of the firing?
A—Yes, I was actually going towards the Station, in another minute, I should have been there.
Q—From what you could see at the time your riesha arrived at} this particular point, what did you think was the temper of this most A—Up to that point, 1 should have said they were cheerful, more [cheerful than otherwise, in fact thought they were simply watching the result of an armed robbery hence the firing.
'Q—Did you sce any rush towards the Station with violence?
A—No, I saw a rush of about 15 or 20' people when the firing took place, and there was no rush after that where T was.
Q—Didt you hear any warning! shouted to the crowd before the firing?
A—No, Everything seemed ordinary except that everybody was looking westward, 1" came to the conclusion that there must! have been an armed robbery somewhere around Louza Station.
Q—Did you see any violence displayed by the mob?
'A—Nene at all, QDid you see any is struments lor armed weapons?
A—I saw none at all.
Q—The Police stated there we: e} tour baniboo poles such as coolies use to carry things with. Did you ce, any of these A—No, I did not.
Q—Being in that situation, 50 near the Police Station, and inthe Jerowd, would you ray that the Pol-were justified in fung at the A—I could not say becense T did not actually see the Police where they were stationed. Neither did L seo the crowd when I heard the fi At that time, I had a clear vision to the left of me and Tsliould say in front of me, but not Tall right.
Q—You stated a moment ago {that the crowd appeared to cheerful, and that it was a cheerful mob, not violent. In these cireumstances would you ay the Police were justified in firing.
could not say, I was not up on the spot.
'Q—Havo you had any experence with large crowds and mobs?
A—Many, and fighting ones, too. I have seen a good bit of active service as a political officer.
Q—In your experience as a pol-tical officer, have you ever seen an occurrence similar to tiiist A—No, I could not say that 1 Ihave. I have passed down streets} with many, more hundred people! than I saigon that day.
Q—As affpolitical officer, what} thas been your experience' with respect to mobs or crowds just before the authorities would shoot to kill. What preparation would they take?
'A—If you are asking about my' service, The King's Regulations fare that no man should fire until] ho fired upon Q—Those are the regulations governing what?
'A—AIl officials of any service. T once had an experience to know Q—Would you say the Police would form ina square before they' would shoot and read the riot act] or give some such warming.
A—My duties chiefly in the service were, when there was any trouble at all, to have the milita out, to hand over towns to. the military, but one always knew quite well that if you were not first fired at, that you ran the risk of being dintined the service, and of your government paying for an} image that was. done, and for joss of life. One incident in my life shows that it is not always the jeaso that one has to be fired at first because J, personally, was held up on a Commission of Enquiry at headquarters in Nigeri to answer why we fired on a town' without first being fired upon. On that occasion, I had lost 4 of my] messenger staff and had received the]a most insulting message from. the chief of the district Jout an armed body which I accompanied myself. No troops TRIAL OF RIOTERS AT THE MIXED COURT, SHANGHAI had been shot at the time, and we] arrived at the town and' still no shots had been fired. 1 should like to say that it was found that} Thad no other alternative except fire or to hand over the town the military.
the Police. pied Jgoverning the milita to Q—Do tone King's Regulations
A—I was as liable to be held up on @ commission of enquiry just} the tame if had gone with Police soldiers.
Q—From what you could ga-{ther being on Nanking Road: in a ricsha and seeing the crowd was jeheerful, would you say that these indications warranted the police firing on the most A=I could not say. My first {impression was that the Police had fired blank cartridge. When 1 [saw the wounded, I knew they had fired ball. Then'I wondered when ther they were justified oF not. Itisfor the Court to say.
Magistrate: From your point lof view, could you say whether or not, the crowd had any intention to capture the Station?
A—I could not say because 1 [could not get near to the Station.
Cross-examined by Mr. Mait-
Text read from the printed page and cleaned; old type leaves the occasional error.